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Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

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robduloc
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by robduloc »

Thank you, Dee!!

I hope that everybody knows the wealth of information here, is so beyond my late teens purchasing the most recent Trouser Press, Melody Maker or Circus~

I do know a little from my teens about a certain kind of rosary.

Crushed dried rose petals combined with resin to form each bead.

The beads are pretty durable and made for every day use.

That's a lot of holding and praying over.

The basis of this synthesis can't be found in most history books.

Those days or trials are over, I will try and and share what I have managed to put together.

Cities in Europe were constantly being burned to the ground. Especially the churches and schools that were first formed by the church.

The clergy wanted the population at large that were asking for relief, to use their rosary as a penance or answer to all their searching prayers.

The sort of request that were being fielded the most were loss of love ones or the aftermath of pillaging, which took time and involved lots of reconstruction, devotion and prayer.

The priesthood started constructing the rosary beads from the ashes of dried petals as their way of saying something very delicate that has passed it's use or full flowering can be used again to help elevate the world and good for all.

And so, yeah, anytime a poet, composer or writer alludes to ashes, sirens go off, all the tearing down and reconstructing ingrained in our DNA, we know that in our heart we all rise from the ashes to light up the sky!


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Dee
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by Dee »

As a follow-up to my post below, there is a Van Gogh connection for Paul Westerberg. In a 2011 Mojo interview, Westerberg explains:
"Westerberg had been surprised, he tells Mojo, when he discovered that he had a song on Meet Glen Campbell, Sadly Beautiful, and also "very flattered". The only Campbell album he owned was a Greatest Hits but he remembered, as a 10 year old, hearing his songs on the radio. "I remember those intricate melodies and this great voice, a singer's voice, not a note out of place." he says. "My personal favourite was Everyday Housewife. And Wichita Lineman. When he sang "I am a lineman for the county" you believed he was up on that damn pole, fixing the wire." He had heard that Ghost on the Canvas (from his 2009 EP, PW & the Ghost Gloves Cat Wing Joy Boys) was going to be on the follow-up when Raymond called to say Campbell loved the song and asked him to write some more. Clearly, a man living in a twilight zone of memory could relate to lines like "I know a place between life and death" even if, as Westerberg says, "the writer is a suicidal maniac who talks to Van Gogh in his sleep". Westerberg did write some new songs, but to no avail. "He didn't like any. I thought one really had great promise, called Every Pause and Every Sigh, whose chorus was "Yes I still want you when you are wasted, yes I still want you when you are high". But Glen had a stipulation of no profanity in the songs, so I had to put five of them on the shelf for that." Instead they went with Any Trouble, a song from 1999. They invited Westerberg to play on it, but he declined, feeling there was no place for him on a track so pristine, so he and Campbell have yet to meet.
(Excerpt posted on the Paul Westerberg forum, October 25, 2011)

Interesting to me that Paul talks about himself in the third person, "the writer is...." Sort of distancing himself from the words that followed: "a suicidal maniac".

Does anyone have the complete Mojo article?


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Dee
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by Dee »

Thanks, Rob: a children's singing game...Ring Around the Rosey.
Your description is so beautiful about the innocence of children and their dreams...and war times and learning how to cover oneself in school should we be targeted by a missile (from Cuba, in my world).

From what I am reading about Westerberg's songwriting, he often takes well-known idioms (in this case a well-known children's song lyric) and twists the idioms' words into something a little different.
So, I think you are right...he alludes to the children's game. But replaces "rosey" to "rosary".
I also read that Westerberg is not as much "religious" as spiritual. So, why would he use the word "rosary"?
Not being a Catholic, I looked up the word "rosary" to learn more about it and found this beautiful description of the rosary that could be the essence of "Ghost On The Canvas" from what I am reading from all of the posts below:
"The rosary is the book of the blind, where souls see and there enact the greatest drama of love the world has ever known; it is the book of the simple, which initiates them into mysteries and knowledge more satisfying than the education of other men; it is the book of the aged, whose eyes close upon the shadow of this world, and open on the substance of the next. The power of the rosary is beyond description." -Archbishop Fulton Sheen, from https://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/prayer ... how_to.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Am I reading too much into the use of the word "rosary" as highly significant and also in noticing that Glen and Julian did not change or replace this word from Paul's original lyrics? And how about the Archbishop's reference about the substance of the next (world) and how it relates to the song lyric, "Let's take hold on the threshold of eternity."

Westerberg's original lyric:
Ring around the rosary
Pocket full of prose you read
Ashes ashes we all fall in love
With the ghost on the canvas

Glen and Julian's lyric:
Ring around the rosary
Pocketful of prosary
Ashes to ashes we all fall in love
With ghost on the canvas

Randy said:
While you see that picture of me/us on the canvas, our soul is there that you are not seeing. Ghost sounds better than soul on the canvas maybe....
Great points! Now the song is starting to make some sense to me; the song is possibly about feeling as if "you are not seeing my soul, you are not seeing the real me."

I feel like these points may be similar to what Cowpoke hit on with signatures bleeding through a canvas creating ghosting or a ghost on a canvas. The ghost or soul is oftentimes missed ("people don't see us") but it is there just the same if you look for it.

Cowpoke, in answer to your question about "ghost on the canvas", I have not heard these words used independently from the song.

My googling took me in a different direction...well, maybe not so different from the video that you posted that connects "Ghost On The Canvas" with Van Gogh.

Westerberg was influenced by Van Gogh, right? Perhaps he was influenced by Van Gogh's artworks as well as Van Gogh, the person, who was deeply conflicted with questions about life and art and spirituality and more?

Van Gogh apparently painted two "ghost" paintings that were self-portraits. These paintings are described as "ghosts" because they were never seen by anyone other than Van Gogh. He painted the first self-portrait, then painted over it with a second self-portrait. Then destroyed the second one. Thus, these paintings remain only as ghosts on a canvas, or, as Randy explained, only souls on a canvas, Van Gogh's soul that only he was able to see. A world religions professor, Cliff Edwards, has written a book about Van Gogh and these two paintings: http://scholarscompass.vcu.edu/cgi/view ... =wrld_pubs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is a stretch of time between Westerberg's song release (2009) and the publication of Edwards's book (2015), but Edwards was lecturing about the ghost paintings at least as early as 2012. Perhaps Westerberg had heard about the ghost paintings prior to writing "Ghost On The Canvas"? I feel like this connection is a possibility since his song lyrics also contain references to common motifs in Van Gogh's paintings: wheat field and crows and possibly the word "ashes" (ashes relating to Van Gogh's drawings and paintings based on his experiences living in a coal mining town). Another stretch on my part. :)


robduloc
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by robduloc »

Thank you, Cowpoke, Randy, Dee,

Your insights into my favorite album are just as important as the record!

Ghost On The Canvas is one of those "All In" moments for me.

The waltz like bobbing up and down, and shuffle swaying side to side, most enraptured.

Electric.

And the violins that lift and move the spirit like a curtain of air playing with some crisp fall leaves.

Word and music infused, the haunting lines that stand out and grab our attention. Unforgettable.

"Ring around the rosary, pocketful full of prosery" A real play on words. My spell check is bleeping at me right now. It's supposed to.

Anyone growing up in the 50's or 60's will remember what is was like to learn one of their first song and dance routines, a rite of passage, to learn it on the back corner lot or yard, away from watchful eyes or older kids in school.

The group mind strong, little children joining hands and form a circle, everyone knows the words and music, poised, take a deep breath together, and emit "Ring around the rosey, pocketful of posies, ashes, ashes, we all fall down"!

The group bow and falls to their knees in one deft sweep. A quiet calm ensues. How is it that.

A revelation for every adult to learn it was a children's game to play in war torn England. A finality or closure reached, when the suffering is over and the bomb hits its' mark.

The most powerful part of the game when the children rise up from their knees and look around, we are the custodians of great resources and faculties, to look around and see, we are the survivors.

I did not have to undergo that sort of trial by fire but our town had signs where the bombs shelters are and practice dropping to our knees and hide under our school desks.

The threat always looming in the back of our minds after seeing pictures of the rubble, ash, burnt out shells, stretchers, blood and bandages.

From an early age its' built into biological clock, children dream about what they will be like when they are grown up, what we will learn for a living, who will we marry, what will our children be like, the hope and promise of a bright tomorrow.

And to be diagnosed with a clinical illness, prepare to watch everything that you hold dear erode and slip away.

A lifetime partner, going in and out a series of doors together, hospital doors near the end, inevitable, deep abiding respect for the lord ever present.

The body is like a tent the spirit uses to stretch itself across, the tent grows old and worn over time but the spirit survives, encamped.

Glen Campbell Ghost On The Canvas

A dance for all ages and road home leading to you~


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Cowpoke
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by Cowpoke »

That's a great explanation Randy! I am glad you joined in the discussion!

What I am also looking for is: do people use the expression "ghost on a canvas", independently of this song. For me, it's hard to tell because I don't speak english as my native language. I have been searching for this on the internet but it's hard to avoid links that refer to this song. However, after some time I came up with this:

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/archive ... 99642.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It appears that sometimes something that has been drawn on the reverse side of a canvas or maybe something that was drawn first on a canvas, afterwards "bleeds" through the actual painting or drawing on the front side. And this is called "ghosting" or a ghost. So it's something below the surface and probably a lot of the times hard to see, but people who pay attention can sometimes see these "ghosts on the canvas" and they tell something about what's on the other side...


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Randy
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by Randy »

To me it means, while you see that picture of me/us on the canvas , our soul is there that you are not seeing. Ghost sounds better than soul on the canvas maybe idk. Just my guess. Great question.


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Cowpoke
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by Cowpoke »

Good point Randy. I agree it must have been the latter. This quote from a 2012 interview confirms that Julian did just that on a least a couple of the songs.
Raymond also selected several dozen outside songs, often preparing and singing demos himself to show Glen how the song might be done ‘Glen Campbell-style.’ “Glen listened to everything, and was very involved in making the final cut. We were trying to stay focused on songs that were loosely based on his life and what he’s going through now.”
http://americansongwriter.com/2012/01/g ... ory-maker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can imagine that Julian thought a demo version that had already been rearranged in "Glen Campbell-style" might help convince Glen to do the song, as Paul's version sounds rather rough. So yes, I think Julian did the rearranging here, where Glen in his heyday would have done that himself. But because Julian is, as he says himself, "a student" of Glen's classic records, he was able to do that for Glen. Still my guess is that even after Julian's work Glen still changed things around to make the song fit.

A question back to you Randy. What does the expression "a ghost on a canvas" normally refer to? What IS a ghost on a canvas? Or is that something that Paul Westerberg invented himself?


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Randy
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by Randy »

My question is do you think Julian played this version for Glen or maybe did a demo of how he envisioned Glen performing it with the changes? My guess is the latter.


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Cowpoke
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by Cowpoke »

Yes Rob, there is a lot more to discuss. And after Ghost on the Canvas, there is See You There and I'll Be Me and then before Ghost there is Meet Glen Campbell and... Glen's whole discography. Love that prospect!

I really want to dig deeper into the song "Ghost on the Canvas". I have the feeling I am finally ready to take on that challenge. Whenever I try to analyse a song or a performance by Glen, it always helps to search for the original version of the song. And when comparing all the differences in emphasis, arrangement, chords and lyrics (Glen sure doesn't shy away from changing the lyrics here and there, he has done this much more often than I initially thought) it becomes clearer what Glen's intention behind recording the song was, what he wants to say with it. Most "serious" music fans have a tendency to prefer bands or artists who write their own material above singers who sing other people's songs. But they forget that within that group there are also artists of the highest caliber, like Frank Sinatra or Glen, who raised the art of song interpretation to dizzying heights, proving that nothing can top a brilliant singer singing a brilliant song. They know how to sing a song LIKE they wrote it themselves. And for Glen, that also means, molding the song in such a way that you can really mean what you sing, that you don't have to lie when you sing it.

Here's Paul Westerberg's original version of Ghost on the Canvas.



What are your first thoughts when listening to this version? :)


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robduloc
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Re: Ghost on the Canvas - Share your thoughts!

Post by robduloc »

Thank you, Dee, I have been thinking a lot about your post here for the song Ghost On The Canvas, that is, you really downloaded yourself and distilled the song to its' essence, that's why I feel so lucky that I have somewhere to go and know everybody is here and cares about the subject.

I haven't forgot the story you shared what it was like I believe, to drive home through the dark hills from Nashville and listen to GOTC, crying or one the verge of tears, because what it meant and how powerful of a life work.

Boy, talk about putting on your headlight, Those historic hills and the music capitol of the world, where dreams are made, broken, buried, brought back to life and celebrated.

Yes, driving through the hills at night must've felt like taking a series of X-ray's.

The bar for the official video A Better Place, has the shot of the main subject stepping up to the stage and spotlight, iit really feels other-worldly, the lord goes ahead to prepare a room for us, many rooms one great big house. Life's panorama, never recorded or shared on this level until now, a man, devoted husband and father, consummate craftsman clinically ill knowing everything that he is and what he is about recede erode and wash away, we are very fortunate to have Julian Raymond and James Keach as an ambassador of the heart.

It's our story, really, the experience of being alive and learning to let go, a little bit at a time, we are sorely in need of a voice to share what that's like, it will help to quell or fears or doubts, to put our faith in God's hands.

Most certainly, oscar material and a few awards of our own as longtime fans or followers, the list of followers continue to grow, the eyes of the world upon what is next entering the unknown, to imbue Campbell's story with humanity, the very breath of his life essence distilled in song, word and picture.

I am glad to be here, with my friends and be the one to say, Glen Campbell Ghost On The Canvas, it's not over.

There are secret messages left by his people, I have discovered and enjoyed a number of them.

For all the people that still buy discs or collect records, look at the labels for Glen Campbell See You There and I'll Be Me OST, they're designed to appear or look like companion pieces for the GOTC album project. They are. Lord knows, in the face of great trial and suffering the makers got that right, any artist or entertainer should be so lucky to have these works enrich lives.

And so, I know that I am entering a good time of my life, coming home from work, tired, the muscles in my hands hands stretched out, barely able to get out of my car and walk to my front door, strive to get work off me, sit down and listen to these albums, and allow the joy creep back in my bones, it's quite a set, with Meet Glen Campbell.

Kids older, not depending on me as much, tapping or knocking on the door to my listening room, strains of these masterpieces ushering from speakers maybe headphones a most welcome addition to our household and musical journey that we are all partaking together.

Glen Campbell See You There enriches and rewards, a living room concert, a secret fantasy for me to find a seat on a couch and take part, reviewing hits and standards I grew up listening to, I love the older and wiser Campbell every crack of the road etched into his face, new heartfelt renderings, a great source of pride and comfort, to have come this far, I will be wearing the grooves on this one for a long time to come. The overall feel of having a new full tank of gas to get through the hills and next leg of the journey. A new lease on life.

Glen Campbell I'll Be Me OST True artistry burning through every vein, waiting for every breath note or chord change as part of the whole experience, there is so much living in these songs, the total effect of being refreshed and to know that the produces were able to look inward deeply and extract them from their very soul, most haunting. To the winners, write the history.

And then there are the songs playing in the back of my mind, another gift to nurture or sustain What a gift. The gift of music... and give gladly...

It is the Glen Campbell Julian Raymond Campbell family James Keach legacy. And you are in the mix. I am so grateful and benefit for the exchange.

Yep, there is more. We have only begun to explore. And so, thank you, for being there for me and take part in the wonderful journey a strong testament to the times we are living in.

There is more~

Thank you, again, for your post.

Love,
Rob* ((+))


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